Global competitiveness of the car industry: A double diamond approach of Volkswagen and Toyota

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Beside the cost of a Tesla there is, I believe subsidized by us. And imagine just the cost of having the power stations installed in your house.


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No, if it lasts less than 8 years it will require more CO2 for a new battery. Not sure what car was chosen for 8 year equivalency, probably some sort of fleet average. Few comprehend the enormous line loss through the grid when a remote power source is used to recharge an electric car. The electric motors are actually very efficient energy converters compared with crankshafts.

Durability is currently unknown, but potentially these electric motors could last a really long time. Bottom line: If you really want to kick ass, get enough solar panels to balance the recharge for your daily commute, thus eliminating the line loss. Do it because it is efficient. The article says Other factors ignored: 1.

Tesla owns the largest photovoltaic array in the world and therefore has electricity with less CO2 impact. Just watch the oil companies try to destroy them.

In fact, they may well be responsible for the article. Badger: I somewhat agree.

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If the electric cars are competitive with gasoline, lets do it! But…factor in the government subsidies that taxpayers ultimately pick up as a cost of driving. If it all checks out, bravo! But I doubt that it will. Oh and the other subsidies. Nice subsidy there. Anything is possible, but you need evidence to justify such a proposition.

Do you have any? I am sure the manufacturers are busy promoting EVs despite the questionable net benefit wrt CO2 generation. They already have that covered. Place a GPS tracker in each car and send them a bill for the miles traveled each month. Government will not do with less money EVER!!!! Exactly, because we all know electricity is cheaper than fossil fuels. That is why in cold climates everybody uses electric heaters rather than natural gas.

Oh, wait. How do you get more energy out of fossil fuels by using them to produce electricity? You lose energy in any conversion process.

Are electric cars that much more efficient than gas-powered cars that they go a lot further on the same amount of energy? Heating with natural gas is probably relatively efficient because the whole point is to generate heat. With other processes, such as a gasoline engine, the point is to generate motion and heat generation is frequently an unwanted by-product. So their efficiency can be greater than that of a car engine. OTOH, you have transportation, storage and some heat loss with electric as well and also some energy recovery if regenerative braking is used.

You have to look at the total picture.

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But the Tesla quick charge stations certainly make Teslas less cumbersome for long distance travel than I had previously thought. Of course if you factor in their relatively high prices …. Is it cheaper to run?


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Seems to me your are just time shifting expense and bringing it forward with an EV. Pay more for the car and then convince yourself you are saving money driving it. Badger, the only reason they are cheaper is because the purchase is directly subsidized, the research is directly subsidized etc. The cheaper operation electric vehicle shtick is a fools mirage, just like the C02 bettery point of this article.

And what happens when the electricity costs increase considerably as promised by Obama.

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Length It will generally take more energy to produce a heavier car. It also takes more energy to MOVE a heavier car. If the oil conspiracy could have killed them, they would havr long ago. There are several all-electric vehicles out now and more on the way…not to mention hybrids. Agreed Badger. NUTS to the emissions. They are just better to drive and will shortly become cheaper than piston engined dinosaurs. Usually by people such as yourself who are blind to reality. Only if the subsidies remain. And the subsidies cannot remain if the revenue from the piston engined dinosaurs declines substantially.

What percentage of gasoline fuel cost contributes to government revenue in your state? It takes X Newtons of force over Y grams of mass to accelerate anything. Any other explanation is nonsense. From Practical Motoring Web. Could you pick a number between 1 and 10, as your guess as to how many of those new car sales were Electric? Everyone can play so have a guess. And the winner is… From Jo Nova.. So if they double this year and the next, and the next, and the next, and the next it will be about ……… and by Also known as a miracle.

Unless one thing happens. The only thing that could ever make a large number of people purchase an EV or for these bandits to become cheaper than the internal combustion engine stars of transport. Take the huge and unlikely doubling of sales for EV out to and you get about , vehicles per year of the 1. But electric cars are gonna become cheaper and more popular than all the others! Amen Brethren….

I love the way electric car enthusiasts are so immune to real world data. They go so far as to declare that any data that goes against their fondest wishes is nothing more than a conspiracy. In that fashion, they are very similar to global warming enthusiasts. In fact there is a sizable overlap between the two groups. PS, if your belief that electrics are so much cheaper, why do they need massive subsidies to get people to buy them? PPS: The only reason why electric cars are cheaper to run is because the IC cars are paying all the taxes to support the roads that both of you drive on.

There are no magic batteries on the horizon to make the impossible possible. Badger, They may be cheaper in a mild climate, but for those who live in more rigorous climates such as Canada, Russia, or the Northern US, there are special requirements to keep the battery warm in the Winter, and additional drain on the battery to keep passengers warm in the Winter. These problems rarely get mentioned.


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You are right about battery and cabin warming. Red herring alert! Stop reading Huffpo, Badge. All that is very approximate obviously and depends on the driver, road conditions, weather and traffic.

Global competitiveness of the car industry

Where I live in the northern plains the electric rates, gasoline and road taxes are all quite a bit cheaper but the ratio is about the same. I gather you are in the UK where petrol prices are quite a bit higher than the US, but so are electric rates so you will have to do your own pencilling there. The biggest concern is the battery. A modern ICE is very reliable and can usually run for , miles.

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That would be well over 1, cycles for an electric since the battery would almost never be run completely down before charging. I seriously question if the battery would make it that long since the smaller lithium batteries are normally only good for to cycles.

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If that is the case then the battery will only be good for maybe , miles or less. You need to include the energy saving of electric cars by regenerative braking such as happens in hybrid cars. Phil; I think the efficiency achieved by things like regenerative braking is included in the range estimates for a fully-charged battery. Assuming a charge efficiency of 0.

Of course, all my calculations are based on what I think are reasonable assumptions that could be wrong — and the back of my envelop is already cluttered with too many other projects. Not being a huge fan of EVs, these numbers are somewhat surprising for me — maybe we ARE getting closer to seeing practical electric cars once the costs come down, range improves, and infrastructure is established for fast and convenient recharging. No obvious change in performance over time.

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